Written by Barbara Smith,
Blogger at Hamilton Wenham Liberals for Democracy
https://www.facebook.com/HWdemocrats/
Please click on the 2-10-22 Hamilton Wenham School Comittee meeting . I am concerned about the discussion on Flag policy beginning at 2 hours: 11 minutes
I will begin by clarifying that I am a liberal Democrat. I support social justice for all marginalized groups, including members of the LBGTQIA community. I love the idea of teaching children about the history of hate and how to make a safer and more tolerant community and world. But I am against the Hamilton Wenham Human Rights Coalition tactics of attacking and bullying anyone who does not obey their orders or sign their pledge. This is antiDemocratic behavior. I am pro- Democracy and hope that regardless of your politcal leaning, you are, too…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc9ayD0o4jQ&t=5225s
I share below the transcript related to Anna’s demand to fly a Pride flag. I agree with Michele, that there is no need to inflame the culture war . The Separation of Church and State is too important to bring in these distractions.
In my opinion, no matter how repeatedly Anna says
” I hear you, I hear you, I hear you…” I respect you, I respect you” ….” ,
she demands that people do what she wants or you will be targeted by the Hamilton Wenham Human Rights Coalition…… I have been called “a racist”, “anti human rights”, “anti-gay” and a TERF” because I don’t obey orders….
Anna and her cohorts at the Hamilton Wenham Human Rights Coalition made similar demands to fly a Pride flag at Hamilton Town Hall. Here is my blog response….
http://hamiltonwenhamliberals.com/hamilton-democratic-committee/hamilton-flag-policy-update/
I copied the video transcript and added the line breaks before each of the video minutes. It would take too much time to type in who is speaking but you can guess from the context and refer back to the video. I am also highlighting the points made in favor of limiting flags to the government flag…
131:12so the policy subcommittee has been
131:14working on this for quite some time i
131:16think at the subcommittee level we’ve
131:17had three or four readings we’ve had a
131:19 couple rounds of legal review with
131:21council
131:23so what you see before us is our
131:25proposed flag policy
131:27it left subcommittee with unanimous vote
131:29of support
131:31and district council has reviewed it and
131:33blessed it as legally sound so we would
131:38welcome the committee’s feedback about
131:40where we’ve landed
131:43so i want to say thank you very much for
131:46the hard work
131:48i131:51have looked back at who
131:53made this motion and it was
131:56unfortunately me
131:58and so
131:59i apologize for the amount of work
132:03that was created here
132:05um
132:06and uh i thank you for doing that
132:09um
132:10i also trust i really do trust the
132:13the the work that you have done i know
132:15that there’s
132:17you know the policy committee really did
132:20do
132:21your homework i have one question
132:26which is
132:31and i did ask this already of eric and
i132:34think i understand it that there’s a
132:37difference or is
132:38well here’s what i see is that
132:40or here was my initial question i
132:42thought well what if i’m a second grade
132:44teacher and we’re studying italy and
i132:46want to just put the italian flag up in
132:48my classroom for the week
132:49i didn’t want to have to go and it looks
132:52to me from reading this like what it’s
132:53saying is this is a public
132:55that wouldn’t be necessarily a publicly
132:57visible that would just be in your
132:59classroom
133:00and
133:01that’s not out on the flagpole and so
133:03this doesn’t cover that is that correct
133:05that is that is correct we talked about
133:07that scenario where
133:09um if you read carefully this policy
133:11applies to any publicly visible flag
133:13displayed on property under the
133:15jurisdiction so that’s one important
133:16line
133:17the other thing that we added at the
133:19request of counsel at the last review of
133:21this is bullet point number six where it
133:23talks about requests for other types of
133:25displays or subject to the approval of
133:26the superintendent of schools or
133:27designee in accordance with the
133:29principles of this policy
133:30i think what you’re getting at speaks to
133:32that as well where
133:33even if it is a flag if it’s not
133:35publicly visible that’s one thing or
133:38if it’s some other type of display maybe
133:40it’s a sign maybe it’s a symbol attached
133:44to a cloth it’s something else something
133:46that is
133:47not exactly a flag on a big public
133:49flagpole that those requests do not need
133:52and in fact should not come to to the
133:54school committee that that should be at
133:56the superintendent’s discretion and
133:59you know they could designate it to the
134:00building level however we want because i
134:02think we talked about it at the
134:03committee we don’t want eric to have to
134:06come to us every time a teacher wants to
134:07do exactly what’s right can i throw one
134:09more out there because i feel like you
134:10guys have covered it but i just so
134:14what if it is a more public like let’s
134:16say the seventh grade wants to have hold
134:19an assembly and they’re going to discuss
134:21the united nations and walk across the
134:23stage with all the flags of all the
134:25countries in the united nations
134:27would that count or as that’s not public
134:29because it’s not displayed on a flagpole
134:31it’s not
134:32i mean i don’t let the other members of
134:34the committee speak in my personal
134:36opinion that would be subject to
134:37provision number six which is at the
134:38discretion of the building or
134:40superintendent not the public but i
134:42agree and it’s not
134:44for fixed time it’s just displayed
134:46walking across you know for an assembly
134:48things like that yep it’s it’s uh yeah
134:51that was one of the reasons mark
134:52suggested putting in number six to be
134:54able to give that flexibility so every
134:57little thing didn’t have to come to you
134:59for approval
135:01um
135:02you know any class any group any
135:04anything it could be
135:06something that they’re doing in their
135:08club that’s in room
209 and135:11they have they have their
135:12flag their banner whatever it may the
135:14band banner whatever it might be we
135:16those those things don’t have to come to
135:18you every single time it’s really right
135:20it’s nearly more if you’re
135:23putting it on the flagpole outside and
135:25really sort of officially saying this is
135:27we are flying flying this way but i yeah
135:30okay
135:32other people have questions the question
135:33then so if
135:35that’s the case
135:38it’s about publicly displaying
135:42things is it only outside the building
135:45i think it’s not my impression that the
135:47reason we put it is publicly visible
135:50flag displayed on property under the
135:52school committee’s jurisdiction meaning
135:53that could be other property that’s
135:55publicly visible that’s not a poll and
135:57the example we used was that flag and
135:59that flight here which
136:00for our purposes of our meeting are very
136:03publicly visible but are not on a poll
136:09my concern with this is that
136:13and i can see somebody doing this just
136:16to be a jerk because i would have done
136:17this in middle school or high school
136:19just be a mature
136:22what if a kid incorporates a flag into
136:24their clothing
136:26uh student speech is totally different
136:27than government speech
136:28okay oh that was not something oh yeah
136:31it’s the students have a lot more
136:33students can be much more outspoken with
136:35what they do than
136:37the district can
136:38i don’t i don’t want to jump on jen are
136:40you still no that was my question as
136:42long as long as there’s a difference
136:45i’m good and i i guess maybe my
136:49i just want to be i actually think it’s
136:51good i just want to make sure that i’m
136:53really understanding it my understanding
136:55is that this is really part of it is
136:57about intent it’s a is it’s about we
137:00the district are displaying
137:03this flag okay right is that am i
137:06reading that correctly that that is
137:09so it’s quite different than my example
137:12about a teacher doing a lesson on italy
137:14and just
137:16and that the in that the flying of that
137:17whatever flag it is lines up with our
137:19values
137:20okay that’s key
137:22okay so then we are saying this is
137:24something we are putting forth which is
137:26very different than this is the this is
137:28i’m teaching you about the flag of italy
137:30it that’s not making a statement about
137:32it’s just
137:34right this is the italian flag i’m gonna
137:36do a lesson on the history of the
137:38italian flag you know like well and i
137:40think the other part of that the request
137:42process um which i don’t think we had in
137:45the very first draft i feel like david
137:46actually was the person who said well we
137:48still kind of need a process here for
137:50making this actionable
137:52um
137:53the idea there too is that if someone
137:55comes to a request if we choose to take
137:57it on and we choose to fly it’s not that
137:59we’re giving that this question of forum
138:01has always come up it’s not that we’re
138:03giving them a form it’s that we’re
138:04saying you know that’s an idea that we
138:06support we will speak as a district in
138:08support of that so it’s i think that’s a
138:10really important distinction that it and
138:13this is where the principle of
138:14government speech is so important it’s
138:16not about
138:17the request per se but if someone brings
138:19a request to us do we say
138:21yes we also believe in that and we will
138:24choose to speak in that way which is
138:26different than saying anyone can request
138:28anything at any time and we’re obliged
138:31to say yes or say no it’s it’s
138:34it’s more narrow than that so that’s
138:36that’s actually
138:37yeah but david i think i think it was
138:38david at one point early said we need to138:40outline
138:41how this would work mechanically
138:44michelle um i have two questions
138:48um how do we know what the
138:50mission vision and goals of the district
138:53are are those recorded somewhere
138:56and the second one is how does this
138:58avoid the issue that boston has found
139:00themselves in
139:03so i think the mission vision goals are
139:06aren’t those on the website i mean
139:07aren’t those
139:08aren’t those public and we’re working on
139:09those i feel like those are established
139:11no books website
139:13those goals are there right those are
139:15the goals yeah those are those are
139:17district goals there are district goals
139:19i don’t know that those well
139:21if you look at the mission and vision
139:22like if you want to the high school
139:23website they’re on there if you go in
139:25the high school handbook i’m just
139:26speaking from what i know right off top
139:27my head they’re in that first couple of
139:29pages
139:30um
139:31there are other documents that’ll come
139:33up craig hubby will
139:36cite them quite often
139:38most of their their belong their beliefs
139:39and belongings and things like that so
139:41i think part of the process of strategic
139:44planning will also clarify that
139:47because we do really need to review some
139:49of those items and clarify them and then
139:52put them
139:54front and center in prominent locations
139:56even
139:57in the buildings i mean as people under
139:58the buildings they should see that if we
140:00really believe in it and this is what we
140:02do so part of that
140:03upcoming process will
140:05starts with that review the mission
140:07review the vision review the the values
140:10and move on from there
140:14one of our values is acceptance wouldn’t
140:16that be acceptance of all views
140:21good question
140:23i i
140:24if i can jump in
140:26you know this
140:27we had to search high and low and far
140:30and wide to find flag policies so
i140:33think and again i’m sorry
140:35yes so no it’s fine it was actually
140:37wasn’t bad but
140:39but i think
140:40i think we have to do one flag reques
t140:43at a time and if we fall into a land
140:46mine we’ll
140:47figure it out and um
140:50and just hope for the best i know that
140:52sounds a little
140:53willy-nilly but
140:54this is really uncharted territory our
140:57other option is to not allow it at all
140:59can you let me know what the situation
141:02in boston is i’m so out of before the
141:04supreme court right
141:07boston has a flagpole where they allow
141:09flags to be raised
141:10someone who
141:12had some sort of
141:14conservative religious i think that was
141:16a church of some kind yeah some sort of
141:18conservative religious whatever wanted
141:20to fly a flag and they denied it
141:22so it went to the supreme court
141:24where it is now
141:27and they were waiting they were waiting
141:30i don’t know if they’ve done the
141:31arguments yet i think they did so they
141:33did this is the shirtless case the last
141:35one here which was upheld at the
141:36appellate level and it was appealed
141:38um and i think michelle told your
141:40question what’s a little bit different
141:42and and
141:43again i’m not a lawyer and i’m not
141:44trying to play one on school committee
141:46but we’ve spent a lot of time talking
141:47about this is that
141:49that case and what boston did may prove
141:51in fact to have created a public forum
141:54because boston granted something like
141:56130 or
140 requests for all kinds of
141:59random things
142:00and then denied this one under the
142:03principle of government speech so
142:04there’s some question as to whether or
142:05not they actually did create a limited
142:07public forum
142:09but the underlying principle of
142:11government speech was established in
142:13other court cases prior to that so
142:14that’s why you see other much earlier
142:17cases where this has sort of been
142:19established so the overall principle of
142:21government speech
142:23remains regardless of whether or not it
142:24could well be that the city of boston
142:26acted outside of that and they may in
142:29fact have done something they should not
142:30have done and it may it may come back to
142:33force in that to change their policy but
142:34that wouldn’t undermine the fundamental
142:37principle that the government has a
142:39voice and governmental bodies have the
142:40ability to speak
142:42but when you speak too much you don’t
142:45or if you you know you know i i
142:48i’ll just put it out there i personally
142:49believe we should not be allowing it
142:52period because it opens us up to things
142:54that we do not
142:58want to be distracted by
143:02the work of the committee is to
143:05make policy no i’m just reading that and
143:08to
143:10evaluate the superintendent and set the
143:12budget it is not
143:13to set the cultural norms for the
143:16community in which we live it’s to
143:18reflect them and i feel like we are
143:21not
143:22staying in our lane
143:24by
143:26saying we’ll display that group
143:29it’s flag because it’s with our missions
143:31but not that group’s flag
143:33when our
143:35vision is to be accepting of all people
143:38and if someone is a hate group
143:42who are we to say
143:43so i personally feel like we should not
143:45be doing this period
143:50so just to clarify what
143:52what i’m hearing from michelle there is
143:54that you would
143:56it’s not you don’t have concerns about
143:58the way this is written you would just
144:00prefer not to have a flag policy that
144:02the policy would be that we do not fly
144:05flags beyond
144:06those of the government for which we
144:08represent so that would be beyond the
144:11flag of the united states of america or
144:13the state of massachusetts
144:17okay
144:20it doesn’t mean you can’t display it in
144:21a classroom
144:22or you know whatever well and that was i
144:25i mean i’m i’m sort of your way up here
144:27and i’m sort of way in the weeds
144:29um
144:31it does appear from this to me that
144:32there would also be flags that might get
144:34displayed that might just never
144:36like i could imagine
144:39in the cafeteria a big flag that said
144:41eat more greens
144:43that they might not ever they might not
144:45ever ask us nor may it ever be
144:50controversial rain that it just might
144:54not come before us like
144:57does that seem accurate i think that’s
144:59very accurate were there all kinds of
145:01messages in the schools including you
145:04know the one that sort of triggered this
145:05was the flying of the pride flag and the
145:07progress flag where
145:09it’s noted that it’s actually already up
145:11all over
145:12the high school middle school especially
145:15and so in some ways you know inside the
145:17building outside the building
145:19we’ve already sort of issued the value
145:21proposition i actually really respect
145:23what you’re saying michelle i hear you
145:25and i think that that’s
145:27part of why it has to come back to the
145:28governmental body making the decision
145:30about
145:31how are we reflecting ourselves to to
145:34the district so it’s not so much that
145:36we’re just a conduit for anyone else’s
145:38request but that it’s we are affirming
145:41what do we feel is a reflection of the
145:44district
145:45and what are the mission and vision and
145:47goals of the district which is what the
145:49school committee says right like we are
145:51the governing body so
145:53i i totally i do i want michelle it’s
145:55really important that i hear you and i
145:57respect you i do disagree but i respect
145:59what you’re saying and i think you’ve
146:01wasted it very well and and i i hear you
146:04i think i just disagree
146:07so does anyone have any because this is
146:09the first reading i have not really
146:11heard anyone
146:12make any questions including myself i
146:14know i’ve talked a lot about
146:17doesn’t i don’t hear any edits or
146:20requests for specific changes in the
146:23document does that seem like an accurate
146:25reflection of the conversation i want to
146:27understand
146:30well it sounded to me like no but that
146:32sounded to me and
146:36this policy
146:38and the city of boston
146:40because for us to put this in place
146:42before the supreme court has come down
146:45on that i think we’re opening ourselves
146:47up
146:48in a way that we don’t want to
146:52so that i guess i was hearing two
146:54different things there one the first one
146:56i heard was that you
146:57and the reason i said no edits was what
146:59i heard you say is basically i
147:01you know none of this well yeah the edit
147:03should be we do not do it
147:06right or what i’m hearing something now
147:08is something separate which is
147:10perhaps147:11a hold until you would like more
147:14information about how the outcome of
147:15that case is that correct yes
147:18okay so those are because those are
147:19different
147:21and
147:22i have heard it’s possible that there
147:23will be no outcome of the case because
147:25boston may be pulling down the ability
147:28to hang flags there in order to to avoid
147:30a finding in which case that would
147:32support my stance that we should not be
147:35doing it okay
147:37um i guess that’s partly why we were so
147:39careful with council that’s my only um
147:41you know
147:42he of course is well aware that that
147:44case is pending and
147:45that’s why we brought him in so um
147:49again i hear you i think that that it
147:51could well be that boston has to change
147:52their practice but that wouldn’t
147:54undermine the entire ability of any
147:56governmental body including a state or
147:58federal government to fly a different
148:00flag because that was happening long
148:01before boston
148:03started doing what it was doing or
148:04before that case you know pride flags
148:06for example have been flown
148:09in some places for decades which
148:10predates all of that so that that that’s
148:13again i hear you and council our
148:15district council
148:16does not have a concern in that same way
148:19so can we possibly
148:21have asked him to come to our february
148:2328th meeting and bring this up to him
148:25again
148:26the march 3rd meeting or the 17th which
148:29one no no our policy meeting on february
148:3128th
148:32you mean do you want to bring this back
148:34to policy
148:35yes
148:36well there’s been a request for edits so
148:38that you sh well the committee should
148:40decide if they want to is there a rush
148:43what’s the rush to get this out then
148:45right so
148:46the date what’s that september we set a
148:48date that that flag would be hung
148:51until september that’s like the flag
148:54that represents
148:56all people
148:58of all
149:01different genders races and sexual
149:04orientations
149:05that it would be hung
149:08pursuant to a policy coming forward in
149:11september
149:13i don’t know i don’t i actually did i
149:15disagree i don’t think that’s really
149:17what happened i think we voted
149:19up we voted to hang the flag
149:22in one motion
149:23and then in a separate motion
149:26a rogue member
149:29said that she would have liked to have
149:32had a policy in order to make that
149:34decision because it was a difficult
149:35decision to make
149:36and i didn’t feel like i had anything to
149:38look at
149:39to make that decision
149:41but they were separate
149:43i did go back and look they were
149:45separate
149:48my guess is we’re going to be asked
149:50whether or not we’re going to hang on
149:51juneteenth flag so the rush would be to
149:54have that in place ahead of time so
149:56so my
150:00thought here
150:05is
150:06and i’m gonna be playing both sides of
150:08the coin for a second
150:09if it’s if the
150:11if it’s already been heard we’re looking
150:13at one like in june most stuff comes up
150:15like like you’re talking about the
150:17supreme court yeah they usually they
150:19usually make decisions in june right
150:21so i mean we could table it till then
150:24or because they told you i would
150:27both sides of the coin here
150:30understood and understanding
150:34that all of the policies we make
150:38are subject to be overturned by federal
150:40law yeah always they’re subjected to
150:43destroying you right
150:44so it’s about it’s not even subject to
150:46change as soon as there’s a law the law
150:48supersedes our policy
150:52but that isn’t a law that’s a court
150:54
decision
150:57right
150:57and we have we we the policy committee
151:00have but to check with our legal counsel
151:03like our legal counsel feels that this
151:05is repeatedly yeah so my guess my
151:07question is
151:09my question really is does the committee
151:12feel
151:13that we should be
151:14displaying flags
151:16that are not
151:18related to the government
151:20right we we hold strong that we have a
151:22separation of church and state
151:25and i feel like we should have a
151:27separation
151:29of
151:31social issues that are going on
151:34that are creating a culture war in our
151:36community
151:37and just
151:39focus on our job
151:41which is to educate children
151:44and not to promote
151:46whatever it is
151:49that
151:50it is and the reason we have flags up
151:53displayed inside of our building is to
151:55show children that we support them
151:59what does displaying it outside say152:02nothing more than what we already have
152:04said to them we love you we care about
152:07you and we want you to be comfortable
152:09here but what it says to the community
152:12is this is a place where you should
152:14fight
152:15those kinds of things and it brings upon
152:18us
152:19distractions that are not benefiting the
152:22committee and they’re not benefiting the
152:23children and they’re not benefiting the152:25community
152:30um
152:32can
i152:34just add one thing well i i guess i
152:36wanna i’m just i’m i’m really i’m
152:38thinking about what michelle said but
152:40i’m also thinking about
152:43um
152:44i think we’re okay i the part of what
152:46i’m was processing is are we moving into
152:50sort of the discussion on whether or not
152:52people want to vote for this policy
152:55rather than sort of trying to figure out
152:57if the like i guess
153:00well a vote on the policies of vote for
153:02the policy right no i understand no no
153:04what i’m saying is that i think we
153:06should
153:07well no i think
153:10well i can’t quite formulate it yet
153:12julia go ahead
153:13what i was going to say is um i
153:15i do see what you’re saying michelle but
153:17as you can see everything is a culture
153:18war literally everything like the masks
153:21it doesn’t matter the handbook that
153:23everything we do
153:25is just is showing
153:27our beliefs but also we are all
153:29individual members of the committee so i153:32think
153:33when a flag comes to us if we object to
153:37it we can
153:38i mean is this the thing where we’re
153:39going to
153:41um
153:42approve certain flags and not certain
153:43flags or is it just a blanket policy
153:46that’s kind of my that’s only my concern
153:49but
153:50the statement that you know it’s it’s
153:52going to engender culture wars i think
153:55everything we do we just have to be
153:57willing to stand behind it because
153:59there’s going to be someone out there
154:00that opposes it and it’s going to cause
154:02some kind of culture war
154:04as we’ve seen well and and i i think
154:07one of the things you said julia was
154:09whether you know whether we’re i think
154:10you said something like whether we’re
154:12for it or against it or as individuals
154:15i think there’s another layer like
i154:19maybe this is more what maybe what
154:22michelle bailey is saying is that i
154:24think we might be more
154:26as individuals
154:28we might have more or less tolerance for
154:31the concept of flying any kind of a flag
154:34outside
154:35like
154:36we might be some people might just be
154:38generally more reluctant like
154:41no i really think it should just mostly
154:43just be the american flag out there and
154:45not really anything else and that
154:48um
154:49and that’s a little bit different than
154:50saying do you approve of each particular
154:53flag it might just be more that you’re
154:55sort of like well
154:57i don’t want to have a different flag up
154:58there every week i want to have right
155:00and that’s a different
155:02quality but it seems like this policy
155:04would allow a member then to vote
155:07no to a request sure to say
155:10you know a member could say
155:12and the policy committee can tell me
155:13whether you think this is true a member
155:15could say
155:17in general i’m really
155:20you know not thinking that for the most
155:22part i really don’t want to make public
155:24displays of flags other than the
155:26government
155:28you know or
155:30not even those right anyone could decide
155:32any of that155:33right is that do you think that’s
155:35accurate i’m trying to get a feel for
155:36what well i have i have sort of a i mean
155:39i can answer that question and then i
i155:40have a process question i think
155:43this policy just establishes a framework
155:46that then if or when requests are made
155:49on an individual basis then we do give
155:51it an up or down and i think that that
155:53you know this is the tool through which
155:55we would do that
155:56um and i think
155:58to what julia was saying and to what
156:00michelle was saying you know
156:01we as a district
156:03have imbued values all over the place
156:05you know our goal is talking about deib
156:08and equity
156:09and making people feel comfortable
156:12i would say that’s become a core value
156:14of this district and i think that
156:18it’s interesting that we’re parsing out
156:20inside the building versus outside the
156:22building because i would actually say
156:24that outside the building is almost more
156:25important and some of the feedback we
156:28got from members of the lgbtq community
156:31last year
156:32felt felt visibly supported in a way
156:36that hadn’t happened when it was just
156:37inside so
156:38i agree with you that culture wars are
156:41are increasing we go through these
156:43cyclical periods in american history and
156:45and you know we are in we are in one now
156:49so much fun for us but i also think that
156:51when we go through these periods
156:54part of the district is
156:57to show you know what what are our
156:59values i mean we literally bake it into
157:01what we do so i agree that this will
157:03probably yield uncomfortable
157:05conversations
157:07but instead of framing it as a
157:09distraction i would say that
157:11when the committee chooses to show its
157:14value set
157:16especially for marginalized groups who
157:18have been historically
157:20underrepresented
157:22that is a powerful statement of
157:24inclusion that i agree there will be
157:27battles and i guess i kind of feel like
157:29i’m okay157:31fighting those battles if it means that
157:32underrepresented people feel
157:34more included in our district i also
157:37agree to your point dana it’s
157:39we have the power to speak or not speak
157:41that’s the principle of government
157:42speech that’s established long before
157:44what boston did with its flagpole so i’m
157:46not legally worried about that
157:48i do sort of have a process question and
157:50the last time
157:52policy brought something to the
157:53committee
157:55after policy had done it and then there
157:56was a question of change or not we
157:57brought it all the way back i think it
157:59was the duration of school committee
158:00meetings and dorothy said you didn’t
158:02have to do that right that was
158:04unnecessary so i guess i want to get
158:06clarity
158:08policies looked at this we approved it
158:10legal counsel looked at it two or three
158:12times i think maybe instead of kicking
158:14it back to policy would it be helpful
158:15michelle if we got a formal written
158:18legal statement from council that we
158:20could present next time
158:22or have counsel come here i just i want
158:24to know how to resolve your concern
158:25because i hear you but i need to
158:27understand
158:28how this is different
158:30but i’m not even sure if i understood
158:34that
158:35that i would vote for it because i don’t
158:38believe we
158:40as a government entity
158:43should display flags
158:45other than those of the government for
158:47which we are elected to represent
158:52so
158:54okay i i hear that i think that’s
158:59and
159:00so
159:01uh
159:02procedurally um and i don’t want to jen
159:04did you have your hand up nope
159:07um
159:09procedurally i think i’m the only one
159:11who feels that way right i mean at a
159:13first reading right we’re gonna vote
159:15policy so maybe we should see if that’s
159:17if we want to send it back to policy
159:20i would like to hear from the attorney
159:23on how the supreme court case might
159:25affect this policy
159:27so that’s a that’s a really concrete
159:29question that we could ask and that
159:31wouldn’t necessarily require a policy to
159:34i think we could sometimes get a written
159:36opinion right correct so okay that’s a
159:38that’s a concrete
159:40question is how does our attorney see
159:43the
159:44supreme court case
159:46what implications if any does he see
159:49on our policy
159:50is that how is it how is our situation
159:53different how is our situation the same
159:54or different right
159:56yeah and in that question would it be
159:58helpful for
160:00him
160:00to explain
160:02the principle of government speech in
160:05in in isolation from what boston did
160:07because i don’t they’re not quite the
160:09same thing they’re related but they’re
160:10different fine
160:12okay
160:13okay i understand what the principle of
160:15government speech is i don’t believe
160:17that we should be doing it
160:20okay
160:21all right so
160:23do we feel are we okay with that that
160:25we’re going to ask that
160:27we’re going to ask for the attorney to
160:28provide us with that information yes
160:31please sure okay do we think we need to
160:33vote
160:34we’re not voting on the policy right now
160:36right well you’re the chair i think you
160:38just have to decide if you want to do it
160:40again you’re the chair you just have to
160:41decide if you want to ask the attorney
160:43or not
160:44i think we’ll do that then let’s ask the
160:46attorney and you can bring that back to
160:47us his response um i think not knowing
160:50what his schedule is and in terms of
160:51getting a good opinion um i mean i can
160:54if it’s all right if it behooves the
160:56committee i can reach out to him or dana
160:57could reach out to him i don’t know if
160:59we’ll have an opinion back before the
161:01next meeting i understand that we don’t
161:03rush it
161:04okay no
161:06okay yeah no i would say
161:09do you know reach out to him please you
161:11reach out to him and he’ll get back to
161:13you in a timely manner i would imagine
161:14okay and just so i’m clear the main
161:16questions to ask are
161:18a better explanation of the principle of
161:19government speech and an explanation of
161:22whether or not the current pending
161:23supreme court case on the boston matter
161:25does or does not affect our policy in
161:27some way or another and i’d be curious
161:29if you know i mean he does represent
161:31other districts oh many many many many
161:33but his where he gathered information to
61:36like what other districts have a policy
161:39right
161:40what we found is that this is really i
161:43mean this is where dana really has
161:45created a monster most again i’m sorry
161:49what what what both he and dorothy who
161:51had to really work hard to find policy
161:55kfd and she had a hard time coding it is
161:57that
161:58most governmental bodies don’t have a
162:01policy because they simply embrace the
162:03power of government speech so for
162:05example your point about the federal
162:06government you know government should
162:07only find government flags the federal
162:10government has flown pride facts for a
162:11long time
162:12without a policy one way or the other
162:15they just did it so this is really true
162:18new territory so he did not have a bevy
162:21of examples dorothy did not have there
162:23were a couple i forget where they came
162:24from there were a few but it wasn’t like
162:27almost vermont believe it or not one was
162:29vermont i feel like there was one in
162:31california or oregon or some place
162:34so we
162:35i know that’s partly why it took so long
162:36to get to this point is we spent a long
162:38time talking about do we need it is
162:40there an example no not really
162:43we actually crafted this out of thin air
162:45i mean this was this is a hamilton
162:47original
162:48um that he he looked so i
162:52i just want to make sure i go back and
162:53get the right i want to ask the right
162:55questions and then i’ll get a written
162:57opinion that we can all look at and chew
162:59on the next time we talk about this
163:00thank you thank you that’s something we
163:02can market what was that
163:04we have something that’s rare sounds
163:06like something we can market maybe thank
163:08you thank you for that
163:11really difficult difficult work
163:14okay
163:16moving on